Transcript 0:00 [water bubbling] [guitar strumming] I still have this one Facebook comment that sticks in my head when I had a video out years ago. 0:17 I was covering an old Steve Earle song about being broke, and this, this guy wrote, he goes, "Well, at least you had a farm just given to you, you know? Must be real hard," kind of thing. And it, it was and it wasn't. 0:28 My grandfather passed away when I was, uh, 22, and he left me with about nine grand to take care of a farm with, like, no fences. I mean, it was a big chunk of property. We've got about 800 acres now. 0:40 That's not huge, but it's solid. I had one truck that had some sort of a, a exhaust leak in the cab, and I remember in the wintertime I used to feed hay with it before it finally just broke completely. 0:54 And I had, like, a time limit. I'd set, like, a timer on my phone for 15 minutes, 'cause I passed out in it one time, in the cab. I passed out at the wheel- S-... feeding hay. 1:03 [upbeat country music] I'm Jason English, and this is Curious Goldfish, a music podcast about more than music. 1:14 I can't sing, I don't play an instrument or write songs, but I've always been curious about the people who can, the ones honest enough to put what they're feeling and dealing with into three minutes, and then hand it to a stranger. 1:27 So those are the people I sit down with. We get underneath the music releases by digging into the doubt, the dark forests, the money, and the reason that they haven't quit. Welcome to Curious Goldfish. 1:41 As a native Missourian myself, I was stoked to spend time with Lyle Strickland. Lyle's family has farmed the Ozarks since 1838, and his first album in about 10 years, called Shooter of Truth, is out this month. 1:56 He sold most of his cattle herd to fund this record. We get into his farming life, the time he spent away from music, and why he's going all in now. 2:05 Lyle also gets deeply personal, and talks openly about living with depression. It's rare to meet someone so willing to describe how dark their dark forest really is. So now from Buffalo, Missouri, 2:19 and if you ask Lyle, he'd say Missour-uh. It'll always be Missouri to me. Here's Lyle Strickland. Let's dive in. Hey, Lyle. How's it going? Great to meet you, man. G- Yeah, great- Yeah... to meet you. 2:32 Thanks for joining the podcast. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Are you, um- Yeah... can you- Yeah, are you dialing in from, uh, from Missouri? 2:39 Yeah, I'm in, uh, I'm in my hometown of Buffalo, Missouri, um, in my kind of, um, speakeasy band practice studio space without, uh, Barbies or My Little Tony pois- uh, toys. 2:53 Um, I got two little girls, so my house is filled with pink stuff. So this is my... I hesitate to say man cave, 'cause it's, uh, it's somehow, I think, more productive than that, but it's, it's a man cave, so. 3:07 Well, you didn't have to caveat the My Little Pony stuff for your daughters. I mean, if you were into that, like, no judgment, man. It's cool. I mean- Yeah... 3:13 I, I'll tell you, they got some pretty good storylines, I gotta say. Well, cool. Well, it's great to meet you. I'm calling in from Atlanta. Uh, however, I grew up in, uh, mid Missouri. Uh, so I grew up- Okay... 3:25 in Columbia. Oh, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I spent a f- I spent a fair amount of time... I wasn't an outdoorsman. My older brother was, and he took me down to Bennett Spring, uh, Bennett Spring State Park- Nice... 3:37 a few times. And, uh, he forced me to eat a trout heart as sort of, like, a gateway to- Rite of passage... some thing he made up, like, a gateway to manhood or something. Oh, yeah. I don't know. But anyway, yeah. 3:48 [laughs] I, I've spent a fair amount of time Lake of the Ozarks, uh, driving through Bolivar, Missouri, uh, down in Springfield. Oh, that's very nearby. Joplin, Branson. Yeah, yeah. So I know that area- Okay... 3:59 fairly well. A lot of good people, and I'm sure, like, you know that better than anybody. So what's happening this summer in Buffalo that everybody should be aware of? Anything? I mean, no. 4:12 [laughs] I mean, it's a- [laughs]... it's a very small town. We have- uh, we used to have the third-smallest Walmart in the whole chain. I'm not sure where we rank now. I mean, it is a sweet little town. 4:22 I always describe it as, like, Mayberry with a twang. We do have a little concert series here. 4:27 My mom and I used to have a coffee shop, and, uh, we shut the coffee shop down, 'cause it just wasn't doing well, so we just have concerts now. So we do have a lot of artists here. There's just a quirky... 4:38 I mean, if you've driven through the Ozarks, like, everyone's a little... You know, they're just slightly off in the best, in the best way, right? But, um, but yeah, so we do a little series here. 4:49 Uh, artists pass through. We just had, um, Jason Eddy and, um, Jim Lauderdale pass through and play this tiny little listening room in the middle of nowhere. So yeah. Awesome. That's about it for Buffalo. 4:59 Yeah, so it's, it, it's... What you're saying is that the, there's more than the... Yeah, there's more than the Bald Knobbers, uh- Yeah, yeah... down in Branson. That's the only show down there. 5:06 Well, I got a friend that sings, sings with them now. And, uh, yeah, I mean, but even Branson used to be super hokey, you know? It used to be just one of those things where you're like, "Ugh," kind of roll your eyes. 5:15 And Branson's gotten pretty cool. 5:19 I mean, it still has the family stuff, uh, still has a few of the shows left, but, um, uh, the folks down there with the city and then Johnny Morris with Bass Pro has done a ton of, ton of stuff. 5:31 They put a big, big outdoor amphitheater down there. And yeah, there's... It's, it's- I love the Ozarks. I am always shocked that more people don't pass through here. 5:42 I'm kinda glad, but also, you know, still want the credit, you know? It's like, want the credit and stay away, please. Yeah. No, totally. No, I think, I think the Ozarks are underrated, so, uh, no, for sure. 5:53 So that's awesome. You and your family have been in that area for, I think I read, like, seven generations. Yeah. We, we moved to Dallas County in 1838, I believe. 6:04 We were- my, that side of the family at least were pastors and rectors, um, pretty much until they Went through actually Georgia. Once they got to Missouri, they started farming, kind of broke that line. 6:15 But yeah, yeah, just cattle farmers and some s- uh, sustenance farmers and yeah. No, good for you guys. That's, that's incredible. And, and I will say I, I appreciate your stance on Missouri versus Missouri. Yeah. 6:30 I prefer Missouri, but I, I pro- it's probably because I grew up in Columbia, so, you know- I mean-... I'm not too far south, right? That's, that's the line, right? 6:38 I mean, I always like to say I'm on the Missouri side of Missouri, you know? It's... [laughs] Um, sometimes I'll, I'll let Kansas City slide a little bit occasionally, but, um, yeah, if you're, you're St. 6:50 Louis, you're, you're on the Missouri side, for sure, so. I like St. Louis. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, that's cool. Well, seven generations, lot, lot of farming. And I think you're, 7:02 uh, and you've got so much to talk about, uh, I think in terms of just kinda your journey the last decade or so, and, and the music and all the things you g- you have going on. 7:11 But, uh, you've made a conscious decision to sort of consolidate or sort of refocus your farm so you can actually focus on the music. 7:20 I guess could you explain a little bit more about that, and what actually does that entail? Yeah. I, I had a, a really bad year, um, 2016, 2017. Um, and before that, I, I was on the road, like, 10 months out of the year. 7:34 I was, you know, pushing real hard at stuff. Took a big long break. Um, I, uh, need, desperately needed some, some personal time to kinda fix my, my mind. 7:46 After that, met my wife and, and COVID hit, and had a daughter, and had another daughter, and, um, all this stuff. 7:53 And was just kind of, yeah, in the woods, you know, sitting around taking care of the cows, looking for mushrooms, you know, and all the, you know, fun stuff in the woods. 8:02 I kind of got back into it and decided to kinda go for broke on it. It was a pretty rough decision, but it was, it was good. But yeah, I've, I've now, 8:14 I've sold most of my herd, and, um, I was kind of working down towards it anyway, um, putting it into fencing. 8:23 'Cause I was down in Texas one time, and my, my wife had called me, and she goes, uh, she goes, "There's a bunch of cows out on the road, and, uh, they kinda look like ours." 8:31 And I said, "Well, I guess, I'm in Texas, I can't do anything. So, uh, call, call the neighbor and see if they can run down and, and, you know, put them back in." 8:40 And that was the moment I was like, if I'm gonna get back on the road, like, the fences have to be tight [laughs] right? You know, you gotta, can't have them escaping every time I go out for a run of shows. 8:52 I've definitely had a couple of big cliffs to jump off of with this new record. Um, you know, it's, I kind of self-funded the front end of it by, 9:05 you know, calling in favors and, you know, beg, steal, and borrow from people. And, um, you know, a lot of gracious people were going, "Hey, can I pay you, you know, 1,000 a month for a while? 9:18 Can I, can you hold off for two weeks? Here's the check, but can you give me three days before you cash it?" kinda thing. I reached a point where it was, I pretty much had to make a decision whether I was gonna still be 9:30 a cattle farmer or go back into music. And I've got about 40, 40 head left, um, of cows right now. But I started with, uh, 33 when my grandfather, uh, passed and, and left me the farm, and I built that up to about 300. 9:47 Um, and it took me about 10 years, so it was definitely a decision where I was like, every, every sale is like I'm pushing it down the line. 9:56 Like, this'll take, this'll take 10, 12 years to recover from if I decide to stop it and go back into cattle. But I believe in it. I believe in the songs, and I'm, I'm excited to do it, so yeah. Yeah. Good for you, man. 10:09 I, I think you're the first... Well, I think I talked to somebody else that had a, a big... Well, he, he grew up in South Dakota and talked a lot about that- Wow... experience. 10:17 But, uh, you know, you usually hear people about, okay, get a college degree, or pursue a, you know, pursue a career in finance. Or do I do music, or do, you know, do I- Yeah... whatever, whatever those cases are. 10:28 But, like, you... And the thing I think that's complicates it for you is, like, you've got this, like, incredible legacy of- Yeah... generations. So I, I was gonna ask you about that. 10:36 Um, you know, how much of a, I'll say burden, I, I don't- Yeah... I don't mean it to be negative. No. How, how much of a burden is it for you to, 10:44 to feel like you have to carry that forward, even if it's just a glimpse or a, a glimmer of what it used to be? Yeah. It's, um, it has been a burden at times. Uh, it's also a blessing, you know? I mean, like, I [laughs] 11:00 I, I still have this one Facebook comment that sticks in my head when I had a video out years ago and, and, it was, I was covering, I think, an old Steve Earle song about being broke and, you know, all this stuff. 11:11 And this, this guy wrote, he goes, "Well, at least you, you know, had, you had a farm just given to you, you know? Must be real hard," kinda thing. And it, it was and it wasn't. My grandfather 11:22 passed away when I was, uh, 22, and he left me with about nine grand, um, to take care of, uh, a farm with, like, no fences. I mean, it was a big chunk of property. 11:33 We've got about 800 acres now, um, which for the Ozarks is, you know, pretty decent size, you know? It's not huge, but it's solid. No fences were worth anything, no tractors, no trucks. 11:46 Oh, I had one truck, um, that had, um, some sort of a, a exhaust leak in the cab. And I remember in the wintertime I used to feed hay with it before it finally just broke completely. And I had, like, a time limit. 12:00 I'd set, like, a timer on my phone for 15 minutes, 'cause I passed out in it one time, in the cab. I passed out at the wheel- Geez... feeding hay. Um, and so, uh- I mean, it was, it was rough, but, you know, the... 12:15 My grandad said, you know, to the lawyer when he was setting all the stuff up, he, he said, you know, "Well, you know, this is a big gift, you know? But he says he wants to carry it on and, and keep it going. 12:26 Um, and if, uh, if he can't do it with, with it all given to him, even in rough shape, he probably ought not be doing it." And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's there. It's glued me, you know? 12:40 And in times when I was younger, when I needed to travel to LA and New York and just be wild and free and immerse myself in the industry or, or, you know, go down to Nashville and, you know, hawk it on the streets for a little bit and try to, you know, make my way in all the rounds and do the whole Nashville thing, um, I didn't get the opportunity to do that 'cause I was glued here. 13:02 But it's also the first place I ran back to when I, you know, when my mind cracked, you know? Um- Hmm... it's where I draw my songs from, it's where I draw my inspiration from, and it's, it's my solace, so. It's, 13:17 it is what it is. I'm, I'm trying real hard to instill the, like, the importance of tradition and, um, uh, you know, familial sacrifice 13:31 generationally to my daughters, but I'm also really cognizant to try to not saddle them with expectations that they don't need to meet, you know? 13:40 So yeah, it's, it's a mixed bag, but, um, I always say that, like, in terms of the music stuff, I, I have it 13:49 better than a lot of my friends in that at the end of the day I've got beef in the freezer, I've got a roof over my head. I mean, it's a, it's a small roof, but it's a roof, [laughs] right? 13:59 That's means a lot, you know, if you can always go back and, you know, um, have, you know, pull out a, you know, pound of ground beef and not worry about dinner that night, so. Yeah, that's great perspective, man. 14:13 Uh, I do n- need to give you a little bit of hard time 'cause you're going from farming, which I have so much respect and appreciation for people that have done it for one year or seven generations, you know, 100, almost 200 years. 14:29 Um, but then, you know, it's not that lucrative, and you're, you're kinda dumping that for might, some might even argue a less lucrative career, [laughs] which is being an independent- Well-... musician, you know? 14:40 Let me throw you this. I also have a film degree. [laughs] And I- That's... and I live in the- That's... and I live in the Ozarks. [laughs] Yeah. No, I, I, and my- By the way-... 14:48 my minor's in, my minor's in philosophy, so it's, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm sort of, um, allergic to, to money. Um, but- Oh my God... but I do like nice experiences. It's- So there's that too, so. 15:02 By the way, where'd you get your film degree, somewhere in Springfield? Yeah, Missouri State. Um- Oh, you went to- Yeah, I-... Missouri State. Or was it- I was going for-... 15:09 was it Missouri State or was it Missouri State? Uh, it changed my freshman year. Um, I- Yeah, okay. I forgot what you were saying... between my freshman and sophomore year it changed, yeah. Yeah, we were, um- Yeah... 15:18 I was supposed to get a, uh, philosophy degree, and my advisor at the time actually pulled me in, and he goes, he goes, "What do you wanna do? What are you gonna do after college?" 15:27 I'm like, "I'm gonna hit the road and play music, sing songs." And he goes, "So you don't really wanna be here, right?" And I'm like, "No. I mean, not really." 15:34 Like, I loved the first two years where they made you take all of these classes and disciplines that I wasn't exposed to. Like, that was, that was awesome. 15:42 Uh, but as soon as they made me settle down and pick a, a specific area of study, I was not into it. And he goes, uh, he goes, "Well, I think I can get you out a semester early if you, uh, if you wanna switch to film." 15:54 I go, "All right. I like movies. Let's do it." [laughs] Yeah, isn't Brad Pitt from Springfield? So- Brad Pitt, um- You got that going... John Goodman's from, um, St. Louis, but he went to school at Missouri State. 16:06 Kathy Bates, I think, is from Springfield as well. Um, yeah, we, we, you know, we got some, we got some stuff, you know. [laughs] You got a good lineage. Well, I, so here's the thing though. 16:17 It's like, didn't that send a signal to your family 16:21 that, hey, you know, Lyle may not be completely bought into living a life on the farm, or was that just, like, you taking advantage of, like, the opportunity to kinda just get out and, like, try something different? 16:32 Yeah, so it, it was kinda weird. I, I mean, I, when I was young, when I was a kid, I, I went out with my grandad and my great-uncle and my great-grandfather, um, all the time. 16:42 I mean, I, the summertime was, you know, hauling hay and out in the hay fields with them, and, um, you know, running around checking fences and cleaning out barns and working on tractors and stuff with my great-uncle and grandfather. 16:55 But I started playing guitar, actually I started with bass when I was, like, 12. Um, but by the time I was 14, I was writing songs and playing at local restaurants and stuff. And they kind of, 17:08 like, wouldn't let me do much. They'd be working cattles, uh, cattle and stuff, and, um, they wouldn't let me, like, do anything except for, like, herd them into the corral. 17:19 They wouldn't let me get in the corral or do anything around them 'cause they were terrified I was gonna, like, break an arm and not be able to play guitar. Um, and I, I was not a farm kid. 17:30 I mean, I, I was not an FFA 4-H dude. I was very much into music and art and theater. And I wrote, um, I was a original reporter for the Springfield News-Leader, which is a Gannett paper in Springfield. 17:46 So I was into journalism. And yeah, I went to college and I was, again, you know, I was kind of, my mind kinda went nuts and, uh, you know, the first semester in the dorms and what I was like, 17:57 you know, needing to cool off, and I was, like, driving out in the country to smell fresh cut hay and stuff, and I'm like, like, I'm kind of allergic to hay. 18:05 [laughs] And so, like, this feels like not the best decision to make. Uh, but, but there I was. And so I started, you know, doing that, and I also- I, I've dealt with a lot of death in my family. I, I grew up around 18:22 a lot of wonderful people, but a lot of quite old folks. And, um, 18:28 after every s- person moved on, um, it was always kind of this regret of like, ah, wow, I should've spent, I should've spent more time with them, you know? I could've learned so much. 18:40 Like, why, why did I grumble so much about going down and, you know, helping out in this or whatever? And my grandfather was still alive, but he was kind of getting pretty bad in, in health. 18:53 And so the original plan was for me to move back to Buffalo after college, and I would live at his house, 19:01 kind of learn, learn the ropes on the farm in terms of, like, what, what they'd been doing and some of the nuances that I'd missed in the [laughs] the previous years, you know. 19:11 And then I'd be able to go out on the weekends, and I'd go, you know, tour for two or three days, go out as far as I could, and come back. 19:19 But he, he passed away, like, 10 days before I graduated, so, um, I didn't really get, I didn't really get that aspect of it. 19:27 I was more thrown into it with zero experience, which turned out to be a blessing, 'cause I was a little more open-minded about, like, um, 19:36 working into some, like, uh, grass-fed organic practices and r- rotational grazing, um, stuff for carbon sequestration and all that stuff. So I think everything, everything sorts itself out, you know? But yeah, it was... 19:53 I was not- Right... I was not the typical, like, you know, round 'em up, 4H kid, you know, showing at the county fair. I was playing the talent show, you know, on the next tent over, so. That's so cool. All right. 20:06 Well, let's, let's talk about the music, and then, um, yeah, sort of the things surrounding that. So the, the album's gonna be out in October of, uh, 2026. Yeah. Uh, it's called Shooter of Truth. 20:16 So, uh, what's the truth that you or someone's trying to shoot here? What, what, what's the album theme and- Yeah... and, and title come from? I mean, I th- it's, I think it's me exploring myself, and I... 20:31 It's, it's kinda odd, 'cause m- a lot of my favorite songwriters and, and peers even, uh, that I have are, are, that I absolutely revere, are, like, really great storytellers. You know? 20:43 They, they'll hear someone's story and they'll tell it and... Or they, they write songs that are, um, perfectly composed to move an issue forward culturally or politically, right? And I love those songs. 20:58 I love those writers. It's just not me. Like, for me, it's a, w- songwriting is cathartic. It's, um, it's m- it's a therapy, and it's probably a little 21:10 self-centered and, and there are bits and pieces I hope people take away from it. But this album is, is me working through some stuff. 21:17 Specifically, the Shooter of Truth song, it's, it's a lot about my relationship with, with depression and alcohol and loneliness and, uh, relationships, and it's just, um... 21:31 I, I do love a song and a lyric that has multiple meanings. You know? Um, so you know, I, if, if no one... I assume everyone gets it, but maybe they don't. 21:42 [laughs] I love the fact that it's like, you know, you sit down with your buddy and it's like, "Hey, man, like, let me, I'm, I'm gonna shoot you straight here. 21:49 Like, you've been, you've been tearing it up a little too much. Like, let's back it up a little bit." You know, and then also the shooters, uh, [laughs] and all sorts of stuff. Like, 22:02 the album is me trying to navigate this, this new thing. 'Cause when I was younger, I knew what to do with my music. I kn- I, it was, you know, go out, hit the road, hit it as hard as you can. 22:14 Don't plan on living long, and see what happens. And I'm still here. [laughs] So like, now it's like what do you, what do you do? I didn't, I didn't plan this far ahead, you know? So the album's- Yeah... mostly that. 22:26 So yeah. Yeah. All right. So again, everybody's got their version of the dark forest, right? So, uh, I think y- again, you've shared publicly other inter- interviews and some of the, the press material. 22:39 You know, you lost your dog, your dad died. Yeah. Yeah. You seem to get a pretty- Yeah... 22:45 pretty serious, pretty serious breakup at some point, although, you know, you're, obviously you're married and have kids now, which is great, but, uh- Yeah... 22:51 but it's been 10 years since you released any new music, right? So, um, that's a- Yeah... that's a long time in the dark forest. Not saying that all 10 years were dark, but, uh, yeah. So, 23:03 like, especially being in a spot, on one hand I can see the healing power of being on your porch overlooking land with, with- while the sun's setting and, and you're drinking sweet tea. You know? 23:15 Like, so I can see that, but I also th- also can relate to, like, there's not a lot of people around, you know, uh- Yeah... to help you through that. So, like, is that, did that, was that part of the whole story? Yeah. 23:28 I mean, that was a, a pretty horrible year. 23:31 And, um, and, and folks mean well, um, and I don't, if a- you know, if anyone watches this who has said this to me, like, don't, I don't ever take it personally, [laughs] right? 23:40 When I tell them, like, what I went through that year, they go, "Oh, man, that's a country song." And I'm like, "Yeah, it's, it, it's, I'm pretty sure it's a Rascal Flatts song." [laughs] Right? 23:49 Like, my dog died, my dad died, and all this stuff. Like, it's- Yeah... all this stuff. And, um, and it was, it was pretty rough. I mean, my, my dad, you know, 23:59 ca- basically called me and said, "I'm going into the hospital, and if you wanna see me, you better get here by Friday, 'cause I'm, I'm dying on Friday." 24:05 Um, and I was in, you know, eastern Tennessee, and I drove back and made it, made it back to Springfield seven minutes before he passed away. Was here for a week, and then went back out on tour. 24:17 It was a, it was a very rough year. I kind of-... mettled my way through that, like I always have with my depression. I've, I've dealt with that my whole life. Um, things got, um, better, like I said. 24:30 Met my wife, and then COVID hit, and kids, and things were kinda moving along fine, but I was still just bubbling inside. Like, it just wasn't like... I always say I was 80% happy, right? And I, you know, 24:48 should, should've been 100% happy. Like, beautiful wife, beautiful kids, you know, farm, um, the life, right? Like, all the, all the things that you could want for 25:01 a good, simple life were in place, but not playing music, uh, and not writing earnestly and honestly were, that 20% was killing me. Um, so I, I don't think I've mentioned this in an interview or anything before, but I, 25:19 I was, the kind of crux matter, uh, moment for me on, on the depression side of things is I was, I was cooking breakfast for my girls one day, and I was like, you know, frying up some eggs and stuff, and always before I'd been able to sort of talk myself through my depression and go, "Well, I mean, like, hey, don't do anything crazy, 'cause people count on you, and that's gonna make a lot of people upset," you know? 25:42 Doing it for other people. And I was cooking breakfast one day and was like, "Oh, I'll just... [laughs] I don't know why, I don't know what I have, what I've been thinking. 25:50 I'll just, I'll cook these eggs, you know, I'll put them on the plates for the girls, and then I'll just go in the bedroom and, and shoot myself," right? And it was like, "That's, that's not a good thought." 26:02 Like, it was so spontaneous and so overwhelming. Um, that was the moment I, I needed, knew I needed to get some help. I got on some antidepressant medication, um, that helped me bridge that gap. 26:17 But the, but the real thing for me was getting in some therapy. I did that online therapy stuff, and it was, it was really, really good. 26:26 Sorted me out quite a bit, got off the depression meds, got on some ADHD stuff which was, I think the root cause of a lot of it is that 26:36 I was so used to being spontaneous and free and out on the road that like, while I love my family, uh, and dearly, I felt very constrained, right? 26:49 So that kinda helped me kind of funnel that energy and understand that energy a little bit. So yeah, I don't know. That's a long answer for that. [laughs] But yeah. No, yeah. That's incred- I mean, thanks for sharing. 27:01 Of the songs that are on this new album, 27:04 you know, what were the most cathartic for you to write, and probably the most personal that if someone had to pick one or two that's like, "Okay, I wanna hear this guy's story through song," what, what, what would those be? 27:15 Yeah. Um, uh, I mean, Shooter of Truth is, is the one that broke the rust off everything. I'm trying to think through the track list. Um, Birds, the single out, that'll be out next week, uh, was a big one for me. Um, 27:34 I mean, there's, there's a few on there, and there's, there's a couple playful songs that, you know, are just fun as well, but, um, so it's not all downer, downer stuff. 27:44 Yeah, it's, I'll tell you the, the biggest thing, 'cause I, I did put out one single in that, in that interim, um, between the full-length albums, and uh, I just wasn't writing honestly. 28:00 Um, you know, when I was young and single, like, I had no problem saying anything about anything, and then all of a sudden it's like, you know, you have this life partner and you're like, "Well, I don't want her to read too much into the lyrics and, and misconstrue something," or, "I don't want my, I don't want my daughters, you know, um, at my funeral, you know, reading through these lyrics and go, 'Well, what was that about?'" 28:26 And, and wondering stuff. Like, so it's, I was, like, censoring myself and my writing process. I didn't wanna get too dark or too blunt about things, um, uh, in the writing process. 28:42 Another Place in Time is, is another song on the album that's, that's very, um, personal to me and my story. Um, but yeah, so it, I don't know. I needed to kind of get back to that place where you kind of 29:00 block everything out and I don't care what anyone thinks about this, which I generally have that with, like, you know, the general public and listenership and stuff like that. Like, I don't write for radio. 29:13 I don't write for, you know, um, a marketing group at a label or anything. But it was my, the closest people around me that was like, "Oof. I don't know. That feels a little, little too dark. 29:26 I don't know if they need to hear, you know, those depressing thoughts," you know? But I, I- Do, do you think... Well, do you think the people- I think I-... 29:32 that are close to you knew that you were struggling through, you know, as, as seriously as you were? I think I have a tendency to, to collect really good folks around me. Um, my friends and my family are, are 29:49 really, really good people. Um, but because someone's a good person and a good friend or a good partner doesn't necessarily mean they understand the intricacies of, of what you're going through. 30:01 I have a lot of friends who just flat do not understand depression at all. Like, they just, there's no concept th- with, that they could, like, grasp in their mind where you could just not be happy 30:16 and not wanna be here for months on end, day after day, you know? They just don't, they don't get it. And I'm like- I also don't necessarily get it. [laughs] But, but it's, it's a thing, you know? Yeah. 30:31 I think people try their best. I think they, they do the best they can, and that's- we should afford them the intention, uh, badge, you know? So... Yeah. 30:44 So when you, when you plan to, like, support this album with, with, you know, some shows, uh, whether it's in the area or whether you're in East Ten- Tennessee or wherever that is- Yeah... I mean, what... 30:55 Are you gonna try to use, use the time that you have with the audience to just play the music, uh, and let the, let them kind of interpret it for themselves, or are you gonna k- try to use this as a little bit of a platform to talk about mental health and things like that? 31:08 Well, well, I, I do not platform stuff, uh, generally, but I do talk a lot at shows. [laughs] I'll say that. It's, uh, I've been playing with a band a lot more, and it's, it's been really interesting to navigate 31:25 the different sets. 'Cause if it's just me, which is what I've used to doing is me or maybe, maybe one other person, there's a lot of stories, and there's a lot of, like, explanation and, 31:36 you know, rants and, uh, pondering things on stage, you know. Uh, it just doesn't fit in a band set. So, I mean, yeah, I'm, you know, I'll... I talk about it on stage. I'm not shy about opening up on stuff, but, um, 31:51 but I, I also believe, like, you gotta meet people where they're at and, you know, throwing any sort of, like, banner or bumper sticker on things rarely makes a, makes a difference. 32:03 So, I, I guess at the end of the day, I hope it, I hope if someone's going through something and they hear it, it helps them, uh, and they feel welcome to reach out. You know, kind of, basically. 32:16 But as somebody who deals with that, like, watching some folks, I don't know what the, what the line is, but, like, I'll watch some people on stage, and it 32:25 sometimes it comes off as very genuine and as genuine concern and trying to help people and, and raise awareness. And, and we do need to talk about it more, especially, especially dudes in terms of therapy, like, 32:39 we're not, we're not the best. You know, farmers, the suicide rate on farmers, pretty high. OD rate on musicians, pretty high. [laughs] Mm-hmm. You know? Right. I wish I'd talk about this more. 32:51 But there's also a, um, a point where it becomes a little, uh, branding, marketing heavy, and it comes off as disingenuous, and I never want that. So I talk about stuff, but, you know, I don't... 33:06 I'm not, like, throwing up a sponsorship or anything per se. Yeah, no, I get it. I mean, it's hard- Yeah... right? 'Cause you do have a platform that's unique, but you also don't want to abuse the opportunity. 33:18 You know, and it sort of, I don't know, not- Well, or get-... not piss people off... they get the sympathy clap. Just sort of feeling... Yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah. Like, you, you don't- Yeah, exactly... 33:27 no one wants to be, no one wants to be the pastor at a wedding telling a, a bad joke that everyone feels like they have to laugh at, you know? Like, [laughs] like, it's just- Right... 33:38 you know, if it's funny, we'll laugh, kind of thing. So... No, that's a good point. How are you doing, how are you doing now? And do you think you attributed... 33:46 You, you mentioned some things that you've done, like the online therapy, some ther- you know, some- Yeah... some, some medicine, things like that. 33:53 And then also, like, the just, I would imagine the, and I'll say the word burden again. Again, I don't mean that negative, but you offloading- Yeah... 34:02 some of your cattle and maybe shrinking some of those responsibilities, has that lifted, lifted, uh, uh, weight from your shoulders? Um, it's actually been kind of the opposite. It's been, it's been really- Mm-hmm... 34:15 emotionally difficult- Mm... for me to, to move in that direction. I mean, I'm stepping out off a cliff into thin air hoping I have a parachute, you know? 34:25 Um, for something that someone my entire life has told me, um, it's not doable, right? 34:31 I mean, we all ha- we all have the stories as musicians of the teacher, the counselor, the parent, the friend, the spouse, the partner who said like, "It's not... This isn't a real job. 34:41 It's not, you know, you know, you need to grow up at some point." We've all had that, and so it's, it's been pretty hard. 34:48 For me personally, the, the two keys were therapy, um, and then moving from my depression medicine to ADHD medication. Um, 35:03 insofar in that I can feel, uh, I can still, I can still access all of my emotional capacity with my ADHD meds, but it allows me a little bit of, um, focus to, to not spiral as much. 35:20 And so it's been really great. I, I step away from it from time to time. I stepped away from it for, um, a month or so when I was, uh, recording this album. 35:31 Um, and then when I find myself kind of slipping back into tendencies, 'cause if you're, if you have depression long enough, you kind of know when it's coming, right? 35:40 You know, like, you can kind of recognize like, "Well, it's been, it's been three or four days. I feel like if it doesn't turn around tomorrow, we might be in a, in a little valley here." 35:51 And so that's like, that's a reminder and you're like, "Okay, let's make sure that we're taking it every day. Let's make sure we're on a schedule. 35:59 Plan some activities to like, and some things to make sure we're getting out and, you know, talking to people." Um, apparently it also helps if you talk in the third person, right? [laughs] Oh, wow. Yeah. 36:10 But- Well, where, so where does this, uh, well, where does your, your, uh, you'll say self-awareness, but like, where does the, your awareness of these, um, 36:21 you know, resources and things, because again, like, no, no offense, but I've spent a lot of time in South Central Missouri, right? Yeah. You know, usually- Yeah... 36:31 it's, it's, you go to church, you know, you learn about Jesus- Uh, uh, you know, no premarital sex, you know, and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, like the, the whole thing. Um, and life's pretty simple. 36:44 H- where did that awareness come from? Was that instilled in you by family members, or was... is that, have you always kinda been that, I'll say, curious, yeah? I mean, I'm definitely a curious person. 36:56 I'll attribute it to a handful of things. My general family, all of them were very curious, slightly odd individuals. 37:03 Now, I remember my, my great-grandfather talking about with The Depression, and when they went through the Dep- the Depression with stuff, things were real hard, but they, they took the Sunday Times every Sunday. 37:14 They never let their, you know, their New York Times subscription, you know, lapse on the Sunday, um, 'cause it was important to, like, maintain, you know, some literacy, cultural literacy. 37:28 So my family in general, uh, my uncle's, um, uh, a really strong academic. He was in the dir- I think he was director of humanities department at Michigan Tech. He was at Illinois State. I don't know all of his titles. 37:41 I mean, he's done stuff that's far beyond my capacity on, on understanding what's going on. My mother is a really strong woman. She was a single mom. 37:51 She was one of just a handful of women in major market radio, um, that had her own show. She was a, she was a DJ, um, in Memphis. 37:59 She was one of just a handful of women in major market radio, um, in the whole country, um, that had her own show, and, um, she was on WM- WMC and WMPS. She was at the number one country station in the world. 38:13 There's a big long story of why, why she came back to the Ozarks, but she moved back to the Ozarks and, and she never left that, like, strong spirit. Um, so I'll attribute it to her. And then honestly, uh, 38:27 uh, my stepfather was a very, or still is, I mean, he's still, he's still kicking, um, a very well-rounded individual. The combination of those things, I mean, I've, I've always, uh, 38:42 put sort of the, you know, the Renaissance man archetype on a, on a pedestal. Like, I think it's important to be, um, you know, pretty damn good at everything you can get your hands on. 38:57 You know, you don't have to be the best, but you should have a working knowledge, um, of as much stuff as you can do. In terms of the introspection stuff, like, I don't know. 39:06 I mean, that, that comes with the songwriting territory too. Like, you're always, you know, you're al- at least me, every time I write a song, like, I'm, I'm 39:16 in the mindset that whatever I'm dealing with is worse than anyone's, worse- it's a worse situation than anyone's ever been through, you know? 39:24 [laughs] Which is not true at all, but then you can kinda like, you can deal with it, move past it, and walk away from it and go, "Eh, there are worse things, you know? It's, it's fine." So... Dang. Right. 39:39 Well, uh, so you mentioned curio- curiosity and, and, and your family being curious. 39:43 You know, I ask this of everybody, so at this point, sort of on the, the doorstep of this album and all the changes that you've g- kind of intentionally made, and decisions that you've made, uh, you know, where, where are you at with curiosity? 39:56 Like, what, what are you most curious about today? Oh. I mean, honestly, this is, um, it's just a, this is a point where all of my energy and focus is going into, 40:11 into this album, getting back out on the road, putting these pieces together, um, and trying to plan for the future where, like, I can make this sustainable. 40:21 It's, it's been hard being out on the road and away from my girls, um, so I'm trying to find the right balance of, of that. But I do have a laundry list of, of things, um, that I, I want to get into. 40:35 In true ADHD form, I, I feel like I'm like, uh, one of those people who are like, "Oh, I'm ADHD. Look at all these crazy, quirky things." 40:44 But I literally have, like, a ton of leatherworking tools that I bought, 'cause I was gonna get into leatherworking and make, make my own bracelets that I sell at my merch case. Didn't do it. 40:56 Uh, I got into beadwork for a while. I really enjoy beading. I just wanna do all of it all the time. Um, 41:05 we've, we've talked at home, uh, about, like, the work-life balance, you know, and, like, what it means to balance the farm and family and music and... 41:15 My buddy and I have a, um, a YouTube, uh, booze review show where we review liquor and stuff that people send us, and I was involved with 12 other things, uh, in this interim of music. 41:29 And my wife, she, she keeps going, "One thing at a time. You can't have it all." And I'm like, "I can, and I will. I will have it all. Like, I'm gonna make it work. 41:38 I don't know how, and it may crash and burn, but it feels so good to be back writing and playing, and it gives me the, the fire to sort of, and gumption to say like, 'No, no, I think I can.'" Like, I, 41:56 I don't have to have the penultimate, like, you know, uh, mountain of everything, but I, I wanna dip my fingers in all of these different disciplines and all of these different worlds. Um, I think that's important. 42:12 We live a short life, and you should experience as much of it as you can, um, especially if you're someone like myself who, who tends to need some time to shrink away from the world and sit in solace. So... 42:29 Yeah, life is short, and I was gonna say too, like, I know there's been some, some valleys, right, that you've, you've talked about. But, you know, how, how cool is it for your daughters to 42:39 see an example of somebody that's like, you know, just wants to take on the world, um- Yeah... and you're, and you're in Buffalo, Missouri. 42:47 You know, again, no disrespect, but like, that's really cool, and the fact that your family would get the New York Times and, you know, would open you up to things that are kind of outside that world, I think that's so important. 42:56 And so your daughters, even though, again, everybody's got their struggles, they, they see that, that example. I think that's awesome. I, I did not, um, uh... 43:06 I grew up in w- kind of with a foot in both worlds, uh, financially, where like we had cattle, we had land. 43:13 Um, absolutely anyone could have sold it and chopped it up, you know, and put it on the market at any point and, um, and lived a, a moderately comfortable life. 43:25 Not crazy, but they could have moved to the, you know, a nice subdivision in Springfield and been okay for a while. 43:32 But when I was growing up and my mom, you know, like I said, was a single mom doing her best to keep things together and, and she did a great job. 43:41 But we were, you know, out in the middle of the woods in a 40-year-old mobile home. It was not in great shape, you know? Um, and uh, but it was, it was doable. 43:53 But at the same time, like, we, we made multiple trips to Chicago. Um, we had a inst- a membership at the Art Institute in Chicago. And so at the same time I was, 44:06 you know, not, not living in a, you know, little McMansion in Springfield, I was living in the woods in a trailer. 44:12 I was also seeing, you know, the Monet exhibits and the Renoir exhibits in Chicago and, um, and going to, you know, uh, you know, uh, theater and stuff at, at 180 K in Springfield. And it's just, 44:30 you gotta think about what's important and how much do you really need of material goods, you know? Also, I love material goods, so- Well, good, good on your mom [laughs] Saying that. 44:39 Yeah, I mean, well, good on- I love it. I love it a lot. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good on your mom, man, like for... Yeah, for just, you know, exposing you to, to the world. Lyle, appreciate your time, man. 44:50 Congrats on Shooter of Truth. Well done on, uh, getting back into music and all the things. It was a really a pleasure talking to you, man. Nice to meet you. Thanks, man. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.
